On the Recent Game Versus MRA Discussions

There’s been some stirring around the manosphere recently on a debate between the game camp, represented by Frost and Paul Elam of the MRA school of thought. Here are my thoughts, as a man whose relations with women have improved dramatically thanks to learning about game, and as a man who agrees with many of the goals of MRA’s.

There’s no getting around the fact that most mens advocacy sites come off as a bunch of angry guys with nothing better to so than whine on the internet. Even when they have the facts on their side, they don’t put together an account that ordinary guys could refer people to without being afraid of being embarrassed by association. There’s nothing wrong with venting per se, but the whole ethos is off-putting for guys who like to get things done.

Given that background, I want to give some real credit here to some guys who actually manage to be professionals: the false rape society. These guys are actually sane enough that I can give the link to people I know in real life, and trust that I won’t lose people’s respect.

Extremism has its value, and it can achieve things – look at how successful radical feminism has been. Still, rational moderation is an essential virtue. Radical feminism was able to succeed first, because chivalrous men thought they shouldn’t oppose it, and second, because it was able to co-opt an agenda advanced by much more reasonable people. All the radical whining in the world won’t win institutional support for mens’ issues. At some point you need to convince dispassionate bystanders, and thus far MRA’s have done a very poor job of this.

It’s natural for men not to support such whiners. Although organized whining has been a great success for feminists, most men correctly believe that we are above such tactics, and that to stoop so low would be to sacrifice our birthright of the virtue inherited from thousands of years of male sacrifice for the pottage of victim politics. Such scruples are admirable, but leave us in need of a course of action.

While a greater vision of mens issues is useful, the kind of single issue advocacy that the false rape society does, backed up by hard facts, calm analysis, and total mastery of the issues, is the best way to influence public policy. Single issue advocacy is the most effective wedge we have, and can be leveraged into a broader critique of institutionalized feminism.

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About Pechorin

A Hero of Our Time
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4 Responses to On the Recent Game Versus MRA Discussions

  1. I really appreciate the words of support.

    I rarely talk about this subject publicly, but I cringe when I read some of the stuff that goes on in the men’s blogosphere. I allow a good deal of venting in the comments on my site, because I understand some guys are angry, but chronic venting is not good for anyone. I love some of the sites, but others do nothing but preach to the choir and they seem to have no ambition to go beyond their little band of like-minded readers. I, personally, don’t think that’s good enough.

    I believe we can be much more effective advocates if we recognize that the average person who is not well versed in gender issues would largely agree with every important point we make — if they are presented properly. However (and this is the crucial part) the average person knows that the world is not black and white. It’s filled with grays. Men are not oppressed on every issue. False rape claims are not as common as getting a cold. And if we ever want to persuade people, we can’t be telling them things that don’t ring true.

    Here’s a good way to start: I wish we’d all stop spending so much time characterizing facts. Reporting them is more effective. Read the following and decide which is more effective from an advocacy perspective:

    (1) Harlan University hates men.
    OR
    (2) After a brief hearing, Harlan University expelled a male student for allegedly raping a female student. The university refused to consider the report of the local police department, which conducted a painstaking investigation and concluded that the alleged rape victim lied about being raped.

    Number (1) is laughable. Number (2) would get people’s blood boiling.

    I know, I know — it’s more fun to vent. But at some point we all need to get lots more serious about these issues if we ever want to make a difference.

    Thanks again.

    Pierce Harlan
    False Rape Society

  2. I agree with you, there must be a good co-operation among MRAs. In addition to that I have a couple of things to say. Radical feminism was succeeded because of a number of reasons. I agree that one of them is that chivalrous men thought they shouldn’t oppose feminism. Other facts are gender hypocrisy and the deceitfulness of feminism. Some of men are more gullible in front of feminism. On the other hand some of fathers who have daughters thought that they must rise their daughters up like boys without femininity, because of their hypocrisy. These hypocrites are the real promoters and protectors of feminism. We must strongly refuse this hypocrisy. And we must improve MRAs with a great co-operation.

  3. Malcolm James says:

    The other highly professional website is Fathers and Families ( http://www.fathersandfamilies.org ) with a rather broader remit than FRS. The main blogger these days is Robert Franklin, a retired attorney, and before Glenn Sacks was also very professional.

  4. blah says:

    Only idiots consider what MRAs discuss “whining”.

    Sadly, 99.99% of human beings are idiots. [It’s not what they discuss that’s the problem. It’s how they discuss it.]

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